Jun 22 19:01:23 anyway, welcome at the first official PARPG meeting Jun 22 19:01:26 :) Jun 22 19:01:31 Woohoo! Jun 22 19:01:40 I got the Karl Moik 4-3-3-2 countdown on google Jun 22 19:01:42 :P Jun 22 19:01:53 Zenbitz: you guys at stanford are not going to try creating a black hole *again*, are you? Jun 22 19:01:54 we'll follow a specific workflow for this first meeting: http://wiki.parpg.net/Meetings#Meeting_workflow Jun 22 19:01:55 Title: Meetings - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 19:01:57 where are the cheerleaders Jun 22 19:02:43 as said there: we can consider adopting the workflow for future meeting but for the sake of getting the first meeting done, we'll stick to the these "rules" for today Jun 22 19:02:44 Cain does the booty shake. Jun 22 19:02:45 tie: I am not allowed to comment Jun 22 19:03:00 here's the list of topics: http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2009/06/22#List_of_topics Jun 22 19:03:01 Title: Meeting:2009/06/22 - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 19:03:38 is there any developer of the programming department who would like to introduce a specific topic as speaker? Jun 22 19:03:51 maximinus, i believe Jun 22 19:04:11 well, a quick roundup Jun 22 19:04:17 tie tZee Jun 22 19:04:23 meeting has started: ping Bretzel, Cain, christoph_debian, drebbe, EiMiAR, Gaspard_, Imons, jasoka^, Matney, maximinus, meggie, niha_off, qubodup, shevy, spq, tie, tZee, vtchill, Zenbitz Jun 22 19:04:38 hey Jun 22 19:04:39 pong barra_library Jun 22 19:04:40 pong Jun 22 19:04:42 pong Jun 22 19:04:43 pong Jun 22 19:04:44 it very late, i drunk, but I wrote some stuff earlier Jun 22 19:04:48 pong Jun 22 19:04:51 we can not hear your pong maximinus sorry Jun 22 19:05:02 pong ? Jun 22 19:05:02 lol Jun 22 19:05:06 bong Jun 22 19:05:10 pong Jun 22 19:05:13 Fro the programming dept: Jun 22 19:05:20 Hopefully this won't be *too* long Jun 22 19:05:26 First of all some excuses: Jun 22 19:05:32 I had a child today (well, the wife did), had to be up at 6AM and now it's 1AM :-s Jun 22 19:05:39 And also had a big Chinese drinking session with my brother-in-law. Jun 22 19:05:46 Luckily I typed most of this earlier to paste in :P Jun 22 19:05:52 Here's a round up from the programming dept: Jun 22 19:05:53 nice :) Jun 22 19:05:58 Things have moved quickly in the last 2/3 weeks: Jun 22 19:06:05 Meggie has put forward some nice code and Bretzel has kept up the good work. Jun 22 19:06:11 tZee put forward a reasonable proposal to modularize the code and that seems good to me. Jun 22 19:06:18 Even tie has come back and submitted code, so we have a healthy code team right now. Jun 22 19:06:26 Some interesting talk about tZees ideas. If he's keen and want's to it do I see no problem. Jun 22 19:06:33 Moving forward we need a better method than people working from my TODO list. Jun 22 19:06:41 We need people to declare their interest and area to prevent clashes. Jun 22 19:06:48 Other than, the push should be towards some kind of milestone. Jun 22 19:06:55 In my mind, This may be the most important development - "it's always about the code" Jun 22 19:07:02 I proposed 'tech demo' as something to show 'we can do this'. Jun 22 19:07:08 Making the code better structured / easier on the eye is always part of this. Jun 22 19:07:14 So the issues ahead are: Jun 22 19:07:20 Work towards a tech demo wher we show inventory, map loadind and dialog, for the end of July. Jun 22 19:07:27 In doing this we: Jun 22 19:07:33 Re-factor the code (make it more modular). Jun 22 19:07:40 Make the inventory work (with objects having weight and mass, depending on designers wishes). Jun 22 19:07:46 Make the context menu and items work smoothly. Jun 22 19:07:52 Add some simple dialog. Jun 22 19:08:03 Skin the GUI so the ugly pychan hgx are gone. Jun 22 19:08:04 The last may be hard as it depends somewhat on the artists. Jun 22 19:08:09 Finally, not much to ask of other departments. Jun 22 19:08:15 Some more game tiles to stress the transition code. Jun 22 19:08:22 An animated main character would look awesome :-) Jun 22 19:08:43 * Cain hat die Verbindung getrennt ("Page closed") Jun 22 19:08:52 * Cain (i=62e71f88@gateway/web/freenode/x-10d5cca75622f7b8) hat #parpg betreten Jun 22 19:09:06 thats me done :P Jun 22 19:09:14 (I'll play secretary and bring the results to the meeting page) Jun 22 19:09:28 Don't forget a short skirt barra Jun 22 19:09:35 any questions to maximinus concerning the proposed roadmap to a first public release Jun 22 19:09:37 ? Jun 22 19:09:46 Well Jun 22 19:10:03 let me think about this for a second :D Jun 22 19:10:09 ok Jun 22 19:10:18 I will reply very slow, though Jun 22 19:10:26 can we do some more detailed coding roadmap? Jun 22 19:10:30 would this be the time to discuss the class design draft? Jun 22 19:10:35 what is the purpose of the first public release? Jun 22 19:10:36 Ok, I think most important is to improve our collaboration. Jun 22 19:10:53 yes, on how we split the tasks Jun 22 19:11:00 Right now everyone scripts around everywhere and we have to do a lot of merging and conflict solving. Jun 22 19:11:08 I have one question. Is the character interface point and click with turn based? Jun 22 19:11:18 Usually you solve this by having a design and defined interfaces you can work to :D we lack that Jun 22 19:11:19 yes it is Cain Jun 22 19:11:23 or that's the plan Jun 22 19:11:31 k Jun 22 19:11:31 no turn-based combat implemented yet Jun 22 19:11:51 so that leads me to the design stuff again. :D Jun 22 19:12:03 hmm hard to tell how we best tackle the questions step by step Jun 22 19:12:34 tZee: fully defined interfaces are way ahead of us imo Jun 22 19:12:34 so my suggestion on the collaboration - regardless of the design - is to separate work areas more Jun 22 19:12:35 would you like to make an actual proposal how cooperation could be eased in this regard tZee? Jun 22 19:12:50 we could still have some basic functions, as you outlined in your draft though Jun 22 19:12:57 we should "work out" tasks and try to separate the code of those Jun 22 19:13:31 for a long time it was Bretzel (GUI) and me (FIFE) Jun 22 19:13:45 so we were a lot looser Jun 22 19:14:24 but it's obvious from at least the last week we need to codify the process a bit more Jun 22 19:15:00 also, imo, we need to plan at least a bit ahead, to keep our code extensible with a reasonable amount of work Jun 22 19:15:08 does anyone have prior experience in the field how such a process of a more separated codebase / areas of interest could be implemented? Jun 22 19:15:25 tZee: I second that Jun 22 19:16:07 barra_library: in a professional environment there would be the design done first, thoroughly, completely, and then the implementation begins. but because we are in a learning process that is not possible Jun 22 19:16:17 barra_library: usually different people work on different classes/modules Jun 22 19:16:35 but then again there is at least a rough plan of how would all these classes/modules come together Jun 22 19:16:36 Why not use pseudo code and flow charts for planning long term? Jun 22 19:16:58 yep, I think we need to take into account that this is an open source project where you have developer fluctuation and a couple of other specific issues Jun 22 19:17:19 still, if you define tasks developers can be interchanged as well Jun 22 19:17:30 Exactly Jun 22 19:17:31 if someone leaves someone else can pick up his area Jun 22 19:17:36 It should be mapped out. Jun 22 19:17:54 yep, that's what I meant with it: we need to find a workflow that is suited for our specific situation Jun 22 19:17:57 If the outline is good, you can plug in new guys over old guys without any issues. Jun 22 19:18:08 * zimble (n=Zimble@p54B94DC0.dip.t-dialin.net) hat #parpg betreten Jun 22 19:18:16 hola zimble :-) glad to have you here Jun 22 19:18:22 hi @all Jun 22 19:18:31 hey zimble Jun 22 19:18:31 for that we'd need to settle for a design first. that's why i outlined one today Jun 22 19:18:36 hi zimble Jun 22 19:18:44 meeting did already start as the logs are unfortunately currently down, I'll paste the log of the meeting at pastebin in a minute Jun 22 19:19:15 i posted a class diagram in the programming forum, but i don't know if it was early enough for you, maximinus :D Jun 22 19:19:20 yeah, no prob. I'm a little late... Jun 22 19:19:35 http://wiki.parpg.net/images/3/38/ClassDesign2.jpg Jun 22 19:19:42 tZee, since your design looks reasonable (and as no-one else is proposing one), then I see that as being a good guide for the tech demo Jun 22 19:19:43 that's it, for those who haven't found the link Jun 22 19:20:02 meeting log @ zimble: http://parpg.pastebin.com/d40c884e2 Jun 22 19:20:03 Title: parpg private pastebin - collaborative debugging tool (at parpg.pastebin.com) Jun 22 19:20:35 then let's take this as a base to decide on a design Jun 22 19:20:40 and we aim for that transition ASAP Jun 22 19:21:08 and with base i mean: critisize it, question me about it, let's improve it together :) Jun 22 19:21:19 Hey Tzee Jun 22 19:21:25 probably not here as we would bore the others?! :D i guess the thread is a good place for that Jun 22 19:21:35 Uh okay Jun 22 19:21:35 I believe we can improve it as we go Jun 22 19:21:37 I will wait Jun 22 19:21:46 go ahead cain Jun 22 19:21:46 yes, let's move that discussion to the boards Jun 22 19:21:56 it seems to make more sense to break up tasks until after we get the class design finalized too Jun 22 19:22:20 yep, I think the meeting should focus on basic discussion of these aspects while we agreed on how to continue and after that the hard work is done at the forums or separate IRC sessions where devs of the specific departments meet Jun 22 19:22:25 as I said, do it ASAP Jun 22 19:22:27 I would just like to say that the engine it self should be as simple as possible and that items etc should be handed by the World no? Jun 22 19:23:01 cain, please post this at the thread, then i will explain it there, okay? Jun 22 19:23:07 k Jun 22 19:23:11 hmm I guess everyone has certain areas of primary interest meggie Jun 22 19:23:11 don't be misled by the classnames :) Jun 22 19:23:30 another thing i'd like to talk about: the story engine Jun 22 19:23:42 let me explain in a few sentences Jun 22 19:23:48 ok Jun 22 19:24:16 so in this sense tasks could be breaken up to a certain extend even at this point, I assume Jun 22 19:24:23 i had a look at the wiki today, at the ideas that icelus had. to be honest, i was very excited. i'd very much like to have something like that BUT that would be something for the future. Jun 22 19:24:31 for now: Jun 22 19:24:46 we will need something similar, imo. something more simple, but something similar Jun 22 19:24:58 we need something that defines tasks, checks when they are completed etc. Jun 22 19:25:18 we need a system for the writers to script the story content Jun 22 19:25:30 That sounds very feasible. Jun 22 19:25:33 I think what would really help is a couple of scenarios to see what the story-writers come up with. Jun 22 19:25:56 In addition to that tzee, you can have status variables. Jun 22 19:26:21 Yeah, there needs to be a means to track progression. Jun 22 19:26:24 I am sure you are familiar with this concept, after an major even in a game has been completed, new dialogs with old npcs open up, for instant having the title of dragon slayer. Jun 22 19:26:35 event* Jun 22 19:26:47 Jup, this is all related. Jun 22 19:26:56 you can read about it here Cain: http://wiki.parpg.net/Proposal:Story_Engine Jun 22 19:26:58 Title: Proposal:Story Engine - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 19:27:01 So i suggest we sit down in the forums again and talk about how to approach this topic. Jun 22 19:27:02 Roger. Jun 22 19:27:26 so the whole story engine field would be something you would like to work on, in terms of field of interest tZee ? Jun 22 19:28:04 At a given time I'd like to tackle the story engine that icelus proposed. I feel like I can implement something like it. And I don't think it is too complicated. I is based on scripted events and not randomly generated content, so there is value in it, imo. Jun 22 19:28:15 Yes, barra_library Jun 22 19:28:35 but for now, for the first milestone we and I have higher priorities :) Jun 22 19:28:40 I agree Jun 22 19:28:55 When we get to that point, I definitely would like to assist tZee. Jun 22 19:29:03 Sure :) Jun 22 19:29:10 the story engine seems quite powerful but also therefore quite complicated so we should focus on some more basic tasks at this point Jun 22 19:29:14 tZee: umm, actually icelus' engine was supposed to always be in converged state, even if 'unscripted' things happen :) Jun 22 19:29:38 If anything that should be the last focus that everyone has input in. Jun 22 19:29:50 I would like to help set it up though. Jun 22 19:29:53 Well, the only randomness appears to be when events happen. But events are predefined in the scriptlanguage he proposed. Jun 22 19:30:17 Randomness can be faked though. Jun 22 19:30:27 not exactly :) but I'll explain later Jun 22 19:30:30 so to summarize that: tZee will come up with a proposal how such a story engine can be implemented in the long run but implementation is not a main priority at this point Jun 22 19:30:31 Scripted events can occur only after random conditions have been fullfilled. Jun 22 19:30:49 gotcha Jun 22 19:30:52 to the forums! Jun 22 19:30:58 I think that the following should be considered when writing the story engine: Jun 22 19:31:01 http://wiki.parpg.net/Zenbitz:Thoughts_on_task_resolution Jun 22 19:31:02 Title: Zenbitz:Thoughts on task resolution - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 19:31:19 it's very generic at this point, and doesn't have much to do with dialog Jun 22 19:31:21 (gue) Jun 22 19:31:41 hmm I would like to step back from my formerly announced secretary position :-) Jun 22 19:31:42 but might help programmer understand what I am thinking about in terms of "actions" Jun 22 19:32:03 but I don't think we should discuss it further in the meeting, just a reminder that it exists Jun 22 19:32:08 i haven't finished reading all about it, but will ASAP (out of own interest :D) Jun 22 19:32:41 it looks like summarizing all the stuff at the wiki will be quite some work so it might be easier (for me :-p) if there's are volunteers who summarize specific topics Jun 22 19:32:49 preferably the speakers who introduced the topics Jun 22 19:33:15 sure Jun 22 19:33:28 maximinus introduced the design topic, right? :P :D Jun 22 19:33:46 haha Jun 22 19:33:47 I can take care of topics that nobody decided to summarize Jun 22 19:34:03 but I would like to avoid summarizing all topics alone Jun 22 19:34:30 and I'll take care of the project management related ones Jun 22 19:34:35 anyway, back to topic Jun 22 19:34:51 are there other programming-related topics that somebody would like to introduce? Jun 22 19:35:12 i'm out of topics :D Jun 22 19:35:19 the design part was surprisingly easy Jun 22 19:35:19 :D Jun 22 19:35:22 same here Jun 22 19:35:37 any questions for the programming department by the other developers? Jun 22 19:35:38 discuss on the boards Jun 22 19:36:11 ON the forums, I mentioned that it would be helpful for Mechanics dept (me) to have a python engine that I could test ideas and concepts in. Jun 22 19:36:16 especially any questions that aren't easily discussed at the forums for whatever reasons there may be Jun 22 19:36:18 like a protoyping engine Jun 22 19:36:29 I don't have anything Jun 22 19:36:30 anyone interested in workin on this ? Jun 22 19:36:47 could you elaborate on what kind of functionality such an engine would have to provide Zenbitz ? Jun 22 19:36:53 tricky because it should be independent of FIFE, yet perfectly compatible with current code. Jun 22 19:36:53 brb Jun 22 19:37:13 it seems crucial to the combat stats class...so development of the two should go together perhaps? Jun 22 19:37:29 meggie: Jun 22 19:37:33 yeah, i thought we would consider this in the design Jun 22 19:37:35 I think so, but not sure what you are talking about Jun 22 19:37:40 because i already added some classes regarding this Jun 22 19:38:22 well, if we have just a stats class, it seems like a (simple) mechanics engine could be created (assuming you meant combat mechanics, Zenbitz) Jun 22 19:38:22 i'd rather we integrated ideas with code, but that could be hard to keep up with the ideas :-) Jun 22 19:38:26 what I envision is a text-based "game module" for combat, stats, skills, etc. Jun 22 19:38:46 So you are going to need a lot of math. Jun 22 19:38:58 You mean a lot of FPU? Jun 22 19:39:07 well, i was envisioning some rule set classes Jun 22 19:39:09 or some geometry? Jun 22 19:39:10 actually Zenbitz it's no that hard Jun 22 19:39:15 ..bot... Jun 22 19:39:20 which use the game stats Jun 22 19:39:20 I don't think there is much math Jun 22 19:39:21 ...not... Jun 22 19:39:22 and do stuff Jun 22 19:39:22 :D Jun 22 19:39:27 No, not FPU, the mechanics of combat. Jun 22 19:39:34 Zenbitz: text-based may not be powerful enough - think about visibility, terrain, ranged fight, etc. Jun 22 19:39:37 have you read the specs? Jun 22 19:40:12 not anytime soon Jun 22 19:40:19 yes, you would have to be able to "input" some kind of map representation Jun 22 19:41:01 You could do that by applying a value to certain tilesets. Jun 22 19:41:15 Those values could be converted into visible/non-visible. Jun 22 19:41:16 why not experimenting with a game clone? where you simply have easier access to modify the attributes you need Jun 22 19:41:18 the issue I am having is that the rules are getting very interconnected, and I am no longer sure how well they "work" - if they even work at all Jun 22 19:41:51 I can just keep writing stuff in more and more detail... but at some point it's going to have to be implemented to decide whether it's a good game idea or not. Jun 22 19:41:54 Zenbitz, I think the interface to such a program would the hardest to do Jun 22 19:42:15 back Jun 22 19:42:32 being able to test scenarios / math quickly could be difficult Jun 22 19:42:51 hm it depends Jun 22 19:43:00 I may be wrong on this one, but having a separate playground program to test the game mechanics seems an overkill to me Jun 22 19:43:01 it's sure a lot of work, before you could run your first simulations Jun 22 19:43:08 we better add these capabiltieis to parpg itself Jun 22 19:43:25 tie, I agree Jun 22 19:43:26 hmm I tend to agree Jun 22 19:43:28 Well, that's your call. It's going to have to be done eventually anyway Jun 22 19:43:43 just wait for a bit longer zenbitz :) Jun 22 19:43:53 no problem, I am still very busy Jun 22 19:44:00 hmm that actually leads to tZee's question outlined at the wiki Jun 22 19:44:02 just feel like I am not contributing... Jun 22 19:44:05 i already had some ideas on the rule stuff right now Jun 22 19:44:10 Is AI going to be under the game mechanics? Jun 22 19:44:17 quote >> Jun 22 19:44:18 Game mechanics Jun 22 19:44:18 * Recent progress, current state Jun 22 19:44:18 * Are there possible ways to implement abstract structures on the programming side, at this point? Jun 22 19:44:38 i started to outline those structures in the design Jun 22 19:44:52 and right now i had some ideas, which i will put into uml diagrams and post them in the design thread Jun 22 19:45:01 could you compile a list of game mechanics articles that are "complete" at this point and could be implemented by the programming department? Jun 22 19:45:26 not sure if that's the best approach, the programmers can surely come up with a more solid proposal Jun 22 19:45:26 that would indeed help Jun 22 19:45:53 i'd need to know more about the nature of the rules and the combat system Jun 22 19:45:56 for a design proposal Jun 22 19:46:00 here at the top of this page: Jun 22 19:46:00 http://wiki.parpg.net/Proposals:Mechanics Jun 22 19:46:02 Title: Proposals:Mechanics - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 19:46:08 ok Jun 22 19:46:08 basically they might need to know "this is planned to be in the game as it's outlined here, let's implement it and see how it works ingame" Jun 22 19:46:09 are 3 "Proposals" Jun 22 19:46:14 sigh, so much to read :D Jun 22 19:46:17 those are as complete as anything I've done. Jun 22 19:46:26 they are probably not complete enough to be specs. Jun 22 19:46:42 oki, is there any proposal what part of the game mechanics should be implemented first? Jun 22 19:46:47 that would help! Jun 22 19:46:48 basically some kind of phasing? Jun 22 19:47:11 well, i was thinking about some possibility of interchanging the pacing of the combat system Jun 22 19:47:21 and some ruleset classes which interact with the game stats Jun 22 19:47:39 brb Jun 22 19:47:51 game stats are in the design picture already, can be extended/modified easily Jun 22 19:47:53 thats the math I was thinking of tZee Jun 22 19:48:02 the most important question to me seemed: where to start to implement vital game mechanics Jun 22 19:48:12 most importantly, I think it is better to implement *something*, even if it is imperfect Jun 22 19:48:16 what do you mean by where? Jun 22 19:48:33 we could start on any mechanic Jun 22 19:48:41 what game stats? Jun 22 19:48:49 maximinus: if you decouple it a bit, like i proposed - or even more or in a different way - you can easily exchange modules without having to rewrite the others Jun 22 19:48:57 in the sense of what game mechanics depend on others and which one should be implemented first to have something basic to play around with and add more mechanics as next step Jun 22 19:49:04 I believe tZee meant the game stats attached to inventory/character. Jun 22 19:49:12 Zenbitz: character and item attributes Jun 22 19:49:16 specifically... Jun 22 19:49:32 I am asking because I am pretty sure they have never been agreed upon Jun 22 19:49:34 I think the inventory is a good start Jun 22 19:49:47 I think so too max Jun 22 19:49:47 with the exception of "bulk carrying capacity" Jun 22 19:49:52 they are not defined, only the container is in the proposal, where they are stored Jun 22 19:49:52 because potentially we can merge with Bretzels code Jun 22 19:49:57 so you can add/remove them to your liking Jun 22 19:50:07 it's pretty much up to you in this case to declare something official in this regard Zenbitz Jun 22 19:50:19 it's an impoetant part of the game Jun 22 19:50:31 as we don't have a bunch of game mechanics guys on the team, you can pretty much propose how it's supposed to work in your opinion Jun 22 19:50:34 it's quite independant from the combat, though Jun 22 19:50:48 the others will surely have feedback though Jun 22 19:50:53 Don't you see combat dependent on Inventory? Jun 22 19:50:57 not at all Jun 22 19:51:00 there is an interface Jun 22 19:51:03 sure, the stats Jun 22 19:51:05 but that's it Jun 22 19:51:19 it actually seems like what has to be done is the "character" section: Jun 22 19:51:30 what makes a character ("stats" in the D&D sense) Jun 22 19:51:43 Do we use our own rules? or adopt another system? Jun 22 19:51:45 that would probabl give you guys something to grab onto at least Jun 22 19:51:50 my own rules Cain Jun 22 19:51:59 Zenbitz is now godlike! Jun 22 19:52:15 (10 more minutes for game mechanics talk, to ensure we have enough time left for graphics, audio, writing & project management) Jun 22 19:52:22 k Jun 22 19:52:35 I will get with you on the forums Zen about that. Jun 22 19:52:58 Zenbitz: as I said, in the design there is a proposal for the container that will hold the stats. this will be the interface of the inventory to the combat system. the actual "content" doesn't matter at this time Jun 22 19:53:02 ok, but please read all the wiki sections I have written first Jun 22 19:53:28 tZee - I think that is what I would expect Jun 22 19:53:41 can you send me a pointer to the design doc? Jun 22 19:53:45 * dauerflucher (n=kramps@p57B6F382.dip.t-dialin.net) hat #parpg betreten Jun 22 19:53:59 Yes, is this the link http://wiki.parpg.net/Proposals:Engine_Specifications? Jun 22 19:54:00 Title: Proposals:Engine Specifications - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 19:54:22 hola dauerflucher Jun 22 19:54:29 hey barra_library Jun 22 19:54:44 Zenbitz: do you know how to read UML diagrams? :D Jun 22 19:54:49 yes Jun 22 19:54:52 http://wiki.parpg.net/images/3/38/ClassDesign2.jpg Jun 22 19:54:57 thx Jun 22 19:55:01 in the right side, the GameStats class is the one i was speaking about Jun 22 19:55:46 I will take a look and we can discuss l8r Jun 22 19:55:51 okay :) Jun 22 19:56:38 is that it on the mechanics part? Jun 22 19:57:41 did i disconnect? :O Jun 22 19:57:42 yeah, just to be clear - I cannot really IRC all day, but I am happy to answer anyquestions or consider new ideas etc. via email or forums Jun 22 19:58:10 also, I can program some :) Jun 22 19:58:23 ppfffpearl Jun 22 19:58:27 :D Jun 22 19:58:33 forums prefered Zenbitz Jun 22 19:58:48 private communication over email is usually quite confusing and problematic Jun 22 19:59:02 Hey, I spent 2002-2004 as a python programmer Jun 22 19:59:13 as the other developers are missing this kind of exchanged information Jun 22 19:59:17 Not allowed to use "malloc" though Jun 22 19:59:47 sure barra Jun 22 19:59:59 how about this: Jun 22 20:00:39 from 4pm-4am GMT you can email me if you want to meet me in IRC for a quick ? Jun 22 20:02:36 sure, we actually a new few new North America based devs on the team now Jun 22 20:02:45 - new Jun 22 20:03:26 how could we summarize the plans for future programming / game mechanics cooperation in one sentence? Jun 22 20:03:44 We should talk more! Jun 22 20:03:47 I bleive that one we code up the basic classes, implementing mechanics would become straightforward enough Jun 22 20:04:07 mechanics will simply become the rules by which these classes interact Jun 22 20:05:08 oki, that sounds reasonable; is there any need for further discussion about the topic at the forums? Jun 22 20:05:28 I guess so :-) just asking who makes the next step in this regard so we have an idea how to continue Jun 22 20:05:55 i will read Zenbit's proposals and then try to draft a design on the combat classes Jun 22 20:06:00 well lets get th structure done first Jun 22 20:06:21 I will be back in 5 minutes. Jun 22 20:06:29 actually I would prefer to move on to the other departments maximinus Jun 22 20:06:37 ok Jun 22 20:06:41 as already 65 minutes have passed and we got 4 departments left Jun 22 20:06:44 my only fear is that prgmrs will "assume" something about mechanics and continue on without actually reading what has been thought about Jun 22 20:06:48 I mean in code, not now! Jun 22 20:06:48 though there might be far less to discuss Jun 22 20:06:51 sry Jun 22 20:07:08 got you maximinus, that's reasonable Jun 22 20:07:52 so let's finish the game mechanics talk with the sum up that actual implementation of game mechanics should be based on the mechanics outlined by zenbitz at the wiki Jun 22 20:08:00 i gg, in's insanely late here anyhow Jun 22 20:08:01 next topic: everything audio related Jun 22 20:08:11 2:08 AM! Jun 22 20:08:16 oki, I'll upload the channel log maximinus Jun 22 20:08:25 have a good one Jun 22 20:08:28 so you can read it when you got time or simply read the sum up Jun 22 20:08:31 later Jun 22 20:08:31 Sweet, now I get to talk. :p Jun 22 20:08:31 good night man Jun 22 20:08:37 good night maximinus Jun 22 20:08:40 ping Matney Jun 22 20:08:45 * maximinus hat die Verbindung getrennt ("Ex-Chat") Jun 22 20:08:53 is there anything audio related that you would like to talk about Jun 22 20:09:09 furthermore: are there any questions for the audio department by other developers? Jun 22 20:09:09 Unfortunately, there's not a lot of updating I can do. I haven't recorded any sounds for the demo, and I'm half-through remixing Meinmartini's initial song. Jun 22 20:09:12 ping qubodup Jun 22 20:09:41 maybe you could summarize in 1-2 sentences what the remix effort is about :-) Jun 22 20:10:39 Matney: give blog food! :) Jun 22 20:10:43 as far as I know you're working on remixing the audio track that meinmartini wrote and can be already found in the game Jun 22 20:10:44 Meinmartini's piece is good, but I felt, and I gathered from other conversations, that it was a bit too "Medieval RPG" for us. So, I'm taking the piece and doing everything within my power to make it fit more into the Fallout-esque soundtrack we're gunning for. Jun 22 20:11:18 coolio, I'm looking forward to hear it :-) Jun 22 20:11:31 Also, I'm recording guitar and percussion, and possibly flute, to use in it instead of the midi-based samples that he's using. Jun 22 20:12:01 Finally, I'm adding about a minute of silence and drone notes to either end of it, so it doesn't loop immediately, or as obviously. Jun 22 20:12:39 sounds good to me :-) I already liked MM's version but I'm even more looking forward to a remixed version Jun 22 20:12:51 Any other questions? Jun 22 20:12:52 any audio-related questions from your side for the programmers or vice versa? Jun 22 20:13:06 if not, we will move on to graphics related topics Jun 22 20:13:10 Not from me, right now. I'm sure more will come as we get more models and maps. Jun 22 20:13:44 oki great, so let's start with the graphics department Jun 22 20:13:54 ping Gaspard_ & zimble Jun 22 20:14:03 pong Jun 22 20:14:07 pong indeed Jun 22 20:14:37 are there any graphics related topics that you would like to introduce? Jun 22 20:14:42 I personally have nothing of worth to say about the Graphics Dep's work atm Jun 22 20:15:10 I'm cooking some plans but it's too early to talk about really õ_õ Jun 22 20:15:14 well I think we could need some real graphic artists. Seems like they are all gone or taking a break Jun 22 20:15:25 and it has nothing to do with most departments Jun 22 20:15:45 yep, Lamoot just replied to my mail two days ago Jun 22 20:15:47 writing and graphics are quite related Jun 22 20:16:16 he seems to take a break and would rather prefer some smaller modeling tasks over having any administrative responsibilities for the department Jun 22 20:16:32 hmm I'm with tZee there Jun 22 20:16:38 I would just say that we would need something going on in the Writing dep Jun 22 20:17:02 hmm I think it's a certain deathlock problem Jun 22 20:17:21 * Wr4i7h (n=abc@89-180-101-98.net.novis.pt) hat #parpg betreten Jun 22 20:17:24 well, i think there are some things that can be created anyway Jun 22 20:17:31 like outdoor common graphics Jun 22 20:17:43 we have pretty much settled on the PA snow style, right?! Jun 22 20:17:45 concerning your proposal: I'm still actively advertizing these positions Jun 22 20:18:03 here's the portfolio of a new interest 3d modeler zimble: http://www.copelandworks.com/ Jun 22 20:18:04 Title: Jason Copeland - 3D Environment / Prop Artist Main Page (at www.copelandworks.com) Jun 22 20:18:32 he, cool Jun 22 20:18:45 that is true, but tZee, is the whole game world going to be built from the same building blocks ? Jun 22 20:19:12 what is going to be the emphasis Jun 22 20:19:17 you mean reusable buildings? Jun 22 20:19:24 basically yes Jun 22 20:19:31 I think we can go for a mix of actually reusable tiled buildings and unique ones Jun 22 20:19:43 what is the main theme - ok snowy, got that, but is it mostly urban or mostly rural Jun 22 20:19:47 that's how it was done in Fallout (TM) Jun 22 20:19:52 true Jun 22 20:20:12 hmm Jun 22 20:20:16 oki, I can see that these kind of aspects really depend on actual writing output Gaspard_ Jun 22 20:20:17 good questions gaspard Jun 22 20:20:40 and here we come to the Writing department Jun 22 20:20:43 it's a pity that nineofhearts is not around today :-/ Jun 22 20:20:43 Gaspard_: there will be both urban and rural areas Jun 22 20:20:49 and the point with the first tech demo Jun 22 20:20:55 so you can draw any of them Jun 22 20:21:08 indeed! i am looking forward to her and dave's story proposal Jun 22 20:21:53 Matney what's the scope of that proposal ? Is it one for the.. well. Whole game ? Jun 22 20:21:53 And I don't want to spoil it, now that she's back in the forums. :p Jun 22 20:21:57 so, I have some confusing regarding "milestone 1 demo" and "first tech demo" Jun 22 20:22:06 * Imons_ (n=anonym@62-47-242-88.adsl.highway.telekom.at) hat #parpg betreten Jun 22 20:22:11 Which proposal, Gaspard_? Jun 22 20:22:11 confusion Jun 22 20:22:15 let me try to clear it up Zenbitz Jun 22 20:22:22 the one which is coming from NOH Jun 22 20:22:33 the demo milestone was meant to the product that we have in our hands at the end of the year Jun 22 20:22:34 I am back Jun 22 20:22:47 and depending on our progress made, we'll decide if / how to continue Jun 22 20:22:56 Ah, yeah. It will be for the whole game. We only have the early parts of "Chapter 1" figured out, but we plan for it to cover the whole game. Jun 22 20:23:10 Okay Jun 22 20:23:11 the involved developers can use this demo as a somewhat polished portfolio piece Jun 22 20:23:31 My idea would have been to take a portion of that outlined story and work into that Jun 22 20:23:36 i have a good feeling about this matney, as NOH seems to know the craft :) Jun 22 20:23:38 but on our way to this first demo, there can be several techdemo releases in between Jun 22 20:23:56 take a location or two and build that - writing and graphics wise Jun 22 20:24:02 we could agree upon an unrelated scene (storywise) for the tech-demo/milestone, so that the artists have a direction where to go and what needs to be done Jun 22 20:24:07 Gaspard_ We have plans, and have talked about, utilizing as many of the story ideas that have been proposed, already. Jun 22 20:24:08 yep, that sounds like a reasonable approach Gaspard_ Jun 22 20:24:34 could you bring these plans to the wiki so the others get an idea into which direction you're heading Matney ? Jun 22 20:24:35 so that would be the setting for the first demo Jun 22 20:24:37 if not the tech demo Jun 22 20:24:52 NineOfHearts is working on it i think Jun 22 20:24:55 barra_library, NOH says she has ou plans written out in an outline, I'm just waiting for her to post them. Jun 22 20:25:07 I would like to see something Jun 22 20:25:22 yep, don't worry about perfection at this point Jun 22 20:25:32 * Memphsssss (n=Jeha@e178226230.adsl.alicedsl.de) hat #parpg betreten Jun 22 20:25:33 I am worried that someone will write 50 pages and a bunch of us will go "bleah" Jun 22 20:25:42 we're aiming for an incremental approach anyway so feel free to post proposals early Jun 22 20:25:42 need a "treatment" Jun 22 20:25:45 Zenbitz, I'm worried about that, also. Jun 22 20:25:59 So where do the Writers need help? Jun 22 20:26:02 Where and what. Jun 22 20:26:02 So I'd think we will be waiting for NOH to post something and then we'll start discussing it Jun 22 20:26:07 hopefully it's this week Jun 22 20:26:16 sounds like a good plan to me :-) Jun 22 20:26:24 then we could set actual goals for graphic artists and writers alike Jun 22 20:26:46 Zenbitz: you'd say 'bleah' even if she comes up with the next nobel prize winning text :P Jun 22 20:27:04 ? huh? where do I get such a reputation? Jun 22 20:27:14 tie might be partly joking :-) Jun 22 20:27:18 haha Jun 22 20:27:29 'make generic art/props' is not the best assignment description Jun 22 20:27:53 OK, I have another meeting. Jun 22 20:27:59 yep Gaspard_, we're not blaming anyone for the situation but looking for ways to address :-) Jun 22 20:28:00 right now we have the setting - snowy something with some fallout Jun 22 20:28:06 will be happy to help any writers, or do some writing myself Jun 22 20:28:08 Zenbitz: joking mostly :) Jun 22 20:28:17 no one seemed to like my original idea much though Jun 22 20:28:24 oh sorry, I wasn't intending to blame anybody Jun 22 20:28:53 nope, I was just underlining that it's not the fault of the graphics department :-) Jun 22 20:28:58 Zinbitz, I liked it. :) Jun 22 20:29:05 I also can't spell. Jun 22 20:29:44 oki so let's summarize that: we'll try to bring the story proposal to the wiki as soon as possible Jun 22 20:29:53 then dissect it Jun 22 20:30:06 and NOH will being doing that? Jun 22 20:30:07 after that we can refine it by feedback and come up with actual tasks for the graphics department Jun 22 20:30:14 not sure, but hopefully Jun 22 20:30:40 AFAIR tZee volunteered to help with providing some writing related feedback, especially in terms of coordination / structure Jun 22 20:30:42 what happened to egalor ? Jun 22 20:30:50 he seems pretty much gone Jun 22 20:31:01 he wrote some stuff and even wiki'ed it but then disappeared Jun 22 20:31:04 hm, okay Jun 22 20:31:09 not sure if it's because of the whole discussion about his Estonia proposal Jun 22 20:31:24 He proposed new things after that Jun 22 20:31:31 but it's what sometimes happens in open source projects Jun 22 20:31:38 but the discussion died at the Writing forums Jun 22 20:31:48 a question to you then, barra, who decides on the story ? Jun 22 20:31:52 how is it decided? Jun 22 20:31:55 the writing department :-) Jun 22 20:31:58 it's been blurry til now Jun 22 20:32:00 you're right about me barra Jun 22 20:32:01 Shouldn't we all decide? Jun 22 20:32:07 yes and no Cain Jun 22 20:32:10 lol Jun 22 20:32:11 who is in it besides NOH ? Jun 22 20:32:18 and i'm glad that nineOfHearts is back, she knows about the screenwriting craft as well :) Jun 22 20:32:33 Yes I saw their posts of Screenwriting in the forums. Jun 22 20:32:35 Cain: is the entire crew deciding where is the ship going? :) Jun 22 20:32:35 NOH & tZee, Matney as well I would say Jun 22 20:32:49 the idea is about subsidiarity Cain Jun 22 20:32:55 okay Jun 22 20:33:00 Sweet, I'm a writer, now, too. :) Really, I'm just trying to move the story along so I can get an idea of what sounds to make. Jun 22 20:33:01 lol tie Jun 22 20:33:04 well, actually, i'd like to encourage ALL of you to contribute ideas like maximinus did today Jun 22 20:33:14 while we appreciate all kind of feedback we don't plan to have any 1 developer 1 vote system Jun 22 20:33:15 the writers will then pick the good ones and weave them into a story Jun 22 20:33:18 His post on Dr. Weir? Jun 22 20:33:28 well i've got to go. ill look at the logs later and see what happened and what I need to do Jun 22 20:33:36 See you Bretzel Jun 22 20:33:40 so the people with the expert knowledge in the field usually invest the most time and decide about the general direction of the department Jun 22 20:33:41 goodbye Jun 22 20:33:41 yes, cain Jun 22 20:33:46 later Bretzel Jun 22 20:33:59 * Bretzel hat die Verbindung getrennt (Remote closed the connection) Jun 22 20:34:09 everyone is of course free to join the writing department Jun 22 20:34:22 Roger Jun 22 20:34:35 we just want to avoid situations where everyone feels invested in everything and wants to block ideas that he dislikes Jun 22 20:34:37 Till NOH does her thing, should we be suggesting ideas? Jun 22 20:34:45 Well, I'll be waiting for NOHs Jun 22 20:34:47 for now Jun 22 20:34:48 not only till then Jun 22 20:35:02 sure, all kind of feedback is appreciated Jun 22 20:35:08 but from then maybe ideas related to her story "base" Jun 22 20:35:25 we need to settle for an idea, around which we will create the story Jun 22 20:35:26 does she have a basic summary on the forums I could read? Jun 22 20:35:30 therefore we need lots of ideas Jun 22 20:35:33 not yet Jun 22 20:35:39 one word of advice: the writing department will need to develope some kind of coordination workflow at some point as well, it will be somewhat similar to the situation of the programming department Jun 22 20:35:55 unfortunately not AFAIK Cain Jun 22 20:36:07 and keep the rest in the loop Jun 22 20:36:14 i think the writing dept coordination needs more interactivity as it is less static Jun 22 20:36:27 I can help there Jun 22 20:36:40 yep, I think that will be one of the most tricky cases tZee Jun 22 20:36:41 I have buckets of ideas lying around my house. Jun 22 20:36:46 * Imons hat die Verbindung getrennt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jun 22 20:36:53 * EiMiAR hat die Verbindung getrennt ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )") Jun 22 20:36:55 Maybe I can stir some feedback on the forums. Jun 22 20:37:02 :) Jun 22 20:37:06 Let's do that Jun 22 20:37:10 but I'm looking forward to tackle it with you together :-) I surely won't be easy Jun 22 20:37:21 oki, should I email NOH about it? Jun 22 20:37:27 yes, please Jun 22 20:37:31 It won't be easy, or you won't be easy ;) Jun 22 20:37:34 it's an important step Jun 22 20:37:34 basically asking to please wikify it so we can provide feedback ASAP Jun 22 20:37:44 yep Jun 22 20:37:46 +1 for the email Jun 22 20:37:49 oki, I'll take care of that Jun 22 20:38:02 any other writing-related topics you would like to discuss? Jun 22 20:38:15 I have general questions Jun 22 20:38:19 * EiMiAR (i=eimiar@adsl-ull-45-67.48-151.net24.it) hat #PARPG betreten Jun 22 20:38:25 shoot Cain Jun 22 20:38:30 We are going to have an antagonist to what extent? Jun 22 20:38:33 brb Jun 22 20:38:42 Matney might know Cain Jun 22 20:39:01 unfortunately I'm not really up to date about the writing department Jun 22 20:39:25 Perhaps this should be the next department specific IRC meeting ? Jun 22 20:39:36 Yeah maybe we will go over this first? Jun 22 20:39:38 get NineOfHearts here too Jun 22 20:39:43 yep, I'll cover that in the next block of topics Gaspard_ Jun 22 20:39:52 okay Jun 22 20:40:03 actually it will also be the last one Jun 22 20:40:17 I think NOH can only answer this question Cain Jun 22 20:40:34 Cain, using the existing back plot, http://wiki.parpg.net/Draft:Story, the ELL will be the big bad guy. We're also going to propose a system to determine personal bad guys based on game play. Jun 22 20:40:35 Title: Draft:Story, - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 20:40:37 so I propose to either ask it at the forums and wait for her reply there or try to catch her here at the IRC channel Jun 22 20:41:42 I'm not up to date about it but I hope the story has been reworded to not follow the old "Estonian clichee Nazis" plot :-/ Jun 22 20:42:10 I don't think the link has been reworded, but I don't think we're going with Nazis. :p Jun 22 20:42:19 Estonian National Socialists indeed, I'm getting ready to attend a Victory Monument opening in an hour :D Jun 22 20:42:28 hehe Gaspard_ Jun 22 20:42:55 while I don't mind any nationalistic community as enemy in the game, we should try to avoid clichees Jun 22 20:43:02 and the story should be reasoanble Jun 22 20:43:15 * niha_off ist jetzt bekannt als Nihathrael Jun 22 20:43:19 so no massive amounts of yetis Jun 22 20:43:25 yep :-) Jun 22 20:43:25 Well I'd think the Story part is also in the bag Jun 22 20:43:37 there are many yetis in the forums under writers lol Jun 22 20:43:45 but too less time too discuss it in detail Jun 22 20:44:00 we should wait for NOH's wikified version and will provide feedback on that one Jun 22 20:44:22 +1 for that Jun 22 20:44:26 let's start with the project management related block before we end the meeting Jun 22 20:44:35 K Jun 22 20:44:37 http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2009/06/22#Project_management Jun 22 20:44:38 Title: Meeting:2009/06/22 - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 20:45:02 first topic: should we try to establish such meeting as today on a regular basis? Jun 22 20:45:42 We should try that, yes Jun 22 20:45:46 and should we have department specific meetings that as many members of a specific department should try to attend Jun 22 20:45:51 Seconded. Jun 22 20:46:21 I have prior meeting experience at FIFE and it's hard in general to have weekly meetings, that doesn't work out Jun 22 20:46:23 For example then we could better avoid situations when departments get isolated and dialogue stops Jun 22 20:46:46 do you feel like we could aim for one meeting every two weeks or would that be too exhausting? Jun 22 20:46:56 we could start with that Jun 22 20:47:02 if it doesn't work AT ALL Jun 22 20:47:05 then try once a month Jun 22 20:47:32 oki, the main problem with project meetings compared to department specific meetings is to agree upon a common date and time Jun 22 20:47:37 i am pro biweekly meetings Jun 22 20:47:45 so next meeting Monday in two weeks? Jun 22 20:47:54 You could have meetings daily, doesn't bother me. Jun 22 20:47:59 today we got a lot more decided then all the time before in the forum (on the programming side at least) Jun 22 20:48:10 I can say about myself that most prolly I'll be free to attend anything as of now til the end of August, unless I point out otherwise Jun 22 20:48:19 oki great Jun 22 20:48:52 so besides these project meetings in these sense of "all developers invited", should we try to establish department specific meetings as well? Jun 22 20:48:56 I've still got work to do but I set the pace on my own most probably Jun 22 20:49:10 is that necessary at this point ? Jun 22 20:49:11 i think it's a good idea, barra Jun 22 20:49:14 the departments could have a meeting in the week between the project meetings Jun 22 20:49:30 because the forums are so slow and people do not always read everything/reply to everything Jun 22 20:49:33 this is more direct Jun 22 20:49:38 true.. Jun 22 20:49:46 I think it would be optional for every department Gaspard_ Jun 22 20:49:59 perhaps it'll even liven up the quieter Departments Jun 22 20:50:09 so I'm asking you as a member of a specific department if you would like to have such meetings for your department Jun 22 20:50:21 that would be another tricky question Gaspard_ Jun 22 20:50:40 ATM I'm not sure if the currently rather occupied departments will agree upon such meetings Jun 22 20:50:45 but maybe it's worth a try Jun 22 20:51:33 how do you feel about a programming department meeting twice a month meggie & tie ? Jun 22 20:51:58 I'm all for the programmers meeting twice a month :D Jun 22 20:52:02 in this case we would end up with four meetings per week though, at least some devs Jun 22 20:52:29 * per month Jun 22 20:52:31 barra_library: well, it is not yet clear how involved I am going to be... but in general it sounds reasonable Jun 22 20:53:00 oki, I'll bring something about it to the forums Jun 22 20:53:20 prolly at one of the boards that every department visits Jun 22 20:53:21 wasn't maximinus the hardest one to catch for a meeting ? Jun 22 20:53:37 yes, he's GMT +8 AFAIR Jun 22 20:54:21 but it might be easier for the programmers to agree upon a common date and time if you don't need to take worry about developers from other departments Jun 22 20:54:40 of course all other developers would be welcome to participate in these meetings nevertheless Jun 22 20:54:56 anyway, last topic for today Jun 22 20:55:08 the plan is to restructure the starting page of our wiki Jun 22 20:55:16 http://wiki.parpg.net/ Jun 22 20:55:17 what do you have in mind ? Jun 22 20:55:17 Title: Main Page - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 20:56:06 have a number of different categories and just the most important articles of each category at the starting page Jun 22 20:56:16 something along the lines of the FIFE wiki: http://wiki.fifengine.de/ Jun 22 20:56:17 Title: FIFE development wiki (at wiki.fifengine.de) Jun 22 20:56:22 but it's not such a good example Jun 22 20:56:33 ATM our wiki's starting page is confusing me Jun 22 20:56:45 I agree Jun 22 20:56:51 I'll work out a proposal but won't replace the page itself Jun 22 20:57:08 I'll rather link to the proposal at the forums so you can provide feedback Jun 22 20:57:30 once we're happy with it, we can replace the current version with the overhauled proposal Jun 22 20:57:35 okay Jun 22 20:57:47 that should be the way to go I guess Jun 22 20:57:54 furthermore I encourage all developers of each department to feel free to think about how they would like to structure the pages of their department Jun 22 20:58:29 sorry barra_library, I'm only partially following at this point. I'd be willing to do a programming meeting. I'm pretty much free whenever in the range of 1pm-1am GMT Jun 22 20:58:31 basically feel free to discuss the topic of wiki structure in your department as well Jun 22 20:58:35 * tZee hat die Verbindung getrennt (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) Jun 22 20:58:49 oki, that's it from my side Jun 22 20:58:58 just some final remarks before officially ending the meeting Jun 22 20:59:08 here's the plan: Jun 22 20:59:28 * tZee (n=nonono@cust.dyn.83-173-254-25.cybernet.ch) hat #parpg betreten Jun 22 20:59:40 disconnected after: [20:50:54] but maybe it's worth a try Jun 22 20:59:46 I have to leave in a couple of minutes, I would appreciate if some of you would pick one of the topics that have been discussed and summarize it at the meetings article of the wiki Jun 22 20:59:47 did i miss anything important? Jun 22 21:00:31 http://parpg.pastebin.com/d7099d0ae @ tZee Jun 22 21:00:32 Title: parpg private pastebin - collaborative debugging tool (at parpg.pastebin.com) Jun 22 21:00:57 I'll take a look into it tomorrow and will summarize the topics that haven't been summarized by somebody else yet Jun 22 21:01:06 I'm jumping out of the seat too and will be gone til thursday Jun 22 21:01:22 you can summarize the results here: http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2009/06/22#Results Jun 22 21:01:23 Title: Meeting:2009/06/22 - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net) Jun 22 21:01:28 later Gaspard_ :-) Jun 22 21:01:37 see you Jun 22 21:01:39 furthermore I'll post the blog update tomorrow evening Jun 22 21:01:41 bye all Jun 22 21:01:52 and I'll just upload the log of the complete meeting at the wiki right now Jun 22 21:02:00 i'll try and rant at the forums tomorrow Jun 22 21:02:04 perhaps check out the wiki Jun 22 21:02:14 if you got any questions, shoot; I'll be gone in about 10 minutes Jun 22 21:02:15 * Gaspard_ (n=Gaspard@231.79.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) hat #parpg verlassen Jun 22 21:02:30 thanks barra Jun 22 21:02:34 (mate has his 25th birthday today) Jun 22 21:02:50 * Kingston (n=chatzill@a88-112-85-204.elisa-laajakaista.fi) hat #parpg betreten Jun 22 21:02:54 :) Jun 22 21:03:07 no questions from my side